0001 1 STATE OF LOUISIANA 2 BOARD OF EXAMINERS FOR 3 NEW ORLEANS - BATON ROUGE STEAMSHIP 4 PILOTS FOR THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER 5 6 7 8 9 10 QUARTERLY MEETING HELD 11 THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 2025 12 13 14 15 16 17 At the offices of New Orleans - Baton 18 Rouge Steamship Pilots Association, 2805 Harvard 19 Avenue, Suite 101, Metairie, Louisiana 70006, 20 commencing at 10:00 a.m. 21 22 23 24 REPORTED BY: LESLIE L. NICOSIA 25 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER 0002 1 I N D E X 2 PAGE 3 Title................................. 1 4 Index................................. 2 5 Appearances........................... 3 6 Roll Call............................. 4 7 Adoption of Minutes................... 4 8 New Business: BOE Member Senate Confirmations... 5 9 High Water Safety Ratification.... 6 10 BOE Discussion on Pilot 11 Indemnification................... 7 12 Old Business: Apprentice Program Update......... 15 13 BOE - Drug Testing Policy Update.. 18 14 Pilot Incident Review............. 19 15 Public Comments....................... 22 16 Adjournment........................... 42 17 18 E X H I B I T S (were not numbered) 19 Order Form............................ 41 20 5/1/25 MSIB........................... 41 21 4/10/25, 4/13/25, 4/22/25 High-Water 22 Restrictions.......................... 41 23 24 25 0003 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 MEMBERS OF THE BOARD: 4 CAPTAIN LEE JACKSON 5 CAPTAIN CHRIS RITTINER CAPTAIN JEREMY WHITTEMORE 6 7 COUNSEL FOR THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 8 NEW ORLEANS - BATON ROUGE STEAMSHIP PILOTS: 9 MICHAEL THOMAS, ESQUIRE RICK WARD, ESQUIRE 10 11 12 ALSO PRESENT: 13 Brian Eiselen, Esquire 14 Sharon Geraci, Executive Secretary Captain Brad Brown 15 Captain Robert Heitmeier 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0004 1 ************ 2 Leslie L. Nicosia, a Certified Court Reporter in 3 and for the State of Louisiana, 4 did report the following: 5 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 6 We will call the Board of 7 Examiners for New Orleans - Baton 8 Rouge Steamship Pilots for the 9 Mississippi River meeting to order. 10 As per the agenda, let's do a 11 roll call. 12 Lee Jackson, examiner. 13 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 14 Jeremy Whittemore, 15 commissioner. 16 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 17 Chris Rittiner, commissioner. 18 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 19 From the previous meeting, we 20 had minutes. That's just per 21 protocol. We have a new examiner on 22 -- at the table. Those minutes will 23 need to be adopted. He wasn't a part 24 of the board at that time. So, if 25 it's appropriate, we'll ask a motion 0005 1 from Chris to adopt the minutes, if 2 you reviewed them, Chris, if 3 everything seems to be in order. 4 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 5 After reviewing the minutes, 6 everything is in order. I present a 7 motion to adopt the minutes. 8 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 9 I second the motion. All in 10 favor? 11 COLLECTIVELY: 12 Aye. 13 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 14 Moving on to new business on 15 the agenda, I want to welcome Captain 16 Whittemore to the board, new examiner. 17 Anything you would like to say, 18 Mr. Whittemore, to the board, to the 19 public? 20 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 21 It's a pleasure to serve. 22 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 23 Great. All right. Section A 24 under New Business, Senate 25 confirmation, I put that on the agenda 0006 1 simply because I'm assuming the 2 confirmation went through. Mr. 3 Whittemore or the attorneys, you-all 4 didn't hear anything, so I'm assuming 5 that's -- 6 BY MR. WARD: 7 I'm assuming it went through. 8 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 9 Next on the agenda is high- 10 water ratification. As we've done 11 always, the board has to have the 12 ability to maneuver when high water 13 comes around. So, we put these rules 14 in place. Then, subsequently, at a 15 meeting later down the line, we ratify 16 them. 17 In your packet, you will see a 18 letter dated April 22nd to Captain 19 Wattigney that just reaffirmed the new 20 set of rules pertaining to 16 foot and 21 rising. If all seems to be in order, 22 I will entertain a motion from the 23 members to ratify this letter. 24 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 25 I'll present the motion to 0007 1 ratify high-water safety restrictions. 2 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 3 All in favor? I second that 4 motion. All in favor? 5 COLLECTIVELY: 6 Aye. 7 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 8 Next item is C. This one was 9 asked as per one of the members of the 10 board. I've handed it over to Captain 11 Whittemore to talk a little about that 12 BOE discussion on pilot 13 indemnification. 14 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 15 I would like to continue the 16 discussion about adopting a policy for 17 indemnification for the commission to 18 allow riders to accompany the pilots 19 onboard obtaining their license, if 20 it's something we should address or 21 something we should entertain for the 22 future. 23 The number of people riding 24 ships now seems to be increasing quite 25 a bit. I'm concerned about the safety 0008 1 of them, safety of the ship, safety of 2 the state. 3 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 4 All right. This is outside of 5 my realm. I'll punt to the attorneys 6 on this one. 7 BY MR. WARD: 8 I guess, first, it's more of a 9 question. In terms of 10 indemnification, you are talking about 11 specifically you as the pilot have 12 someone that's riding with you? 13 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 14 Correct. As far as if the 15 rider would potentially get injured 16 boarding the ship and then as far as 17 anything in regards to getting onboard 18 or getting off the ship in that case. 19 BY MR. WARD: 20 I think we can take a look at 21 it and see if there's anything we need 22 -- that needs to be put in place in 23 terms of pilot indemnification. I'm 24 pretty certain right now as things 25 work, a pilot, if you have -- whether 0009 1 it be an apprentice or anyone else 2 that's interested in riding, I believe 3 as the pilot -- Captain, you can 4 correct me if I'm wrong -- you, as the 5 pilot, have the opportunity to say 6 you're good with that or not good with 7 that. 8 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 9 As it relates to accepting a 10 rider, yes, the pilot has sole 11 discretion on whether or not they want 12 to ride someone or not. 13 BY MR. WARD: 14 That is a factor in terms if 15 you don't reach the comfort level, you 16 don't have to go down that path. We 17 can -- I'll do some research and see 18 if there's something we can take a 19 look at in terms of further 20 indemnification and if there's any 21 steps we need to take on that. 22 BY MR. THOMAS: 23 Is your concern for the 24 indemnification of the apprentice or 25 the indemnification of the pilot 0010 1 accepting the apprentice on the ride 2 or indemnification of the association? 3 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 4 The association and the pilot 5 accepting a rider, not the apprentice. 6 BY MR. THOMAS: 7 Layperson? 8 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 9 Correct. 10 BY MR. EISELEN: 11 Captain, I apologize for 12 interrupting. Since you bring up the 13 association, I can wait to ask some 14 questions during public comments on 15 this topic. I'll do whatever you 16 like. 17 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 18 Yes. 19 BY MR. THOMAS: 20 The research is -- 21 BY MR. WARD: 22 What are some of the 23 circumstances that the non-apprentice 24 or a layperson would come to ride? 25 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 0011 1 We have a requirement -- the 2 board of examiners requirement to 3 obtain a pilot license prior to 4 applying to the association. We have 5 people aspiring to become a NOBRA 6 pilot and then overlap from Crescent 7 pilots getting their mileage onboard. 8 My concern is both parties. I 9 know some of the other associations, 10 Crescent pilots in particular, have a 11 waiver form of some kind signed by all 12 riders who are riding ships. 13 My concern mainly is for the 14 individual riding the ship, if they 15 were to get injured boarding the 16 ladder or on deck of the ship. Who is 17 going to be responsible for that if -- 18 Especially if they are already onboard 19 the vessel, if the pilot were to get 20 onboard and they are already there, 21 you are kind of put in a situation 22 where you want to ask permission, but 23 they are already onboard the vessel 24 already. 25 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 0012 1 You mentioned Crescent pilots, 2 Jeremy. Is that on their -- I'm not 3 sure. Maybe you-all know. Is that on 4 the association side that exists? 5 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 6 On the commissioner website. 7 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 8 They have it on the commission 9 side? 10 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 11 Yeah. 12 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 13 On the commission side, do you 14 know what it says? 15 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 16 Basically, it identifies the 17 person, who it is, and who's vouching 18 for that person, as far as like 19 someone in the association giving -- 20 is vouching for that person as far as 21 they're allowed to ride ships with 22 other pilots, which I'm not saying we 23 should go that direction. We should 24 just have an idea who is riding ships 25 with us. 0013 1 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 2 Is that a realm for the state 3 board to engage in? 4 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 5 That's the question I'm asking. 6 BY MR. WARD: 7 Without doing the research yet, 8 my knee jerk is that that's guidelines 9 of the association would have in 10 place, not necessarily something that 11 would come from the board of 12 examiners. 13 We are typically here to 14 oversee any -- anything from incidents 15 to wrongdoings, things like that. So, 16 I don't think we are typically the 17 body that deals with the 18 indemnification. 19 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 20 How would the state view that? 21 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 22 For the ones requiring a pilot 23 license in order to become a pilot, 24 are we the ones saying you have to 25 ride the ship? That's my question. 0014 1 BY MR. WARD: 2 Yeah, I think we are the ones 3 saying you have to ride a ship. But 4 that whole process goes through the 5 association in terms of all the other 6 things. I'm not aware of anything 7 else where we have come up with a 8 policy dealing with indemnification or 9 anything of the sort. 10 Typically, all that falls 11 within the association, and then we 12 are sort of the body that makes sure 13 what is put in place has followed any 14 directives or followed anything like 15 that. Again, I'll -- we will do some 16 research. 17 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 18 That's fine. My intention was 19 to establish research to see if it is 20 something to address or not. 21 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 22 Okay. 23 BY MR. WARD: 24 Happy to do it. 25 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 0015 1 Let's see. That concludes new 2 business. 3 Old business. In your packet, 4 you will see an apprenticeship update. 5 This is basically -- As it stands 6 currently, you would see -- This is -- 7 I want the body to note that this was 8 at the end of May. So, they are 9 rounding June now. The total 10 calculations you see here probably is 11 off by an additional 20 to 25 turns. 12 So, as it stands right now, for 13 the most part, everyone is heading in 14 the right direction to get a 15 reasonable turn count by the end of 16 this program. We have a few laggers 17 in the system. I think they are 18 working hard to pick that turn count 19 up. 20 Just as an update, a week or so 21 ago, they concluded the third seminar 22 in Robert, which is a four-day seminar 23 process that involved PPU, river 24 knowledge. I thought it was -- I 25 attended. I thought it was well put 0016 1 together. All the apprentices really 2 and truly enjoyed that process. It's 3 been a long, hard road for them thus 4 far. 5 I'm extremely proud at the work 6 they have put in, every last one of 7 them. We look forward to them 8 finishing strong. I have more to 9 provide as an update to the board as 10 we get closer and closer to their 11 commissioning time. 12 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 13 As it pertains to commissioning 14 time, is there a date set out? 15 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 16 No. You know, to that, I would 17 say that, effectively, they started 18 their seminar process September 27th 19 of last year. So, technically, the 20 commissioning can happen anywhere just 21 before that or toward the end. 22 The goal would be -- I would 23 say that because October 1st is 24 changeover day for the organization, I 25 would like the examiners -- the 0017 1 commission to conclude its business 2 with this so that we can hand them 3 over to the association for that 4 changeover date. That would be the 5 best-case scenario. 6 So, September will be an active 7 time for them. They will be rounding 8 up their last seminar and any 9 administrative things that the 10 organization is going to require of 11 them as well. 12 To your question, Chris, I do 13 not have a date. I think we are going 14 to rely on Michael and Rick to try to 15 get with the governor's office and 16 board of commissioners to see what 17 flexibility they have and to get the 18 process going. I will absolutely get 19 back with the board as we get closer 20 to that. 21 BY MR. THOMAS: 22 I've seen the governor have a 23 couple signature ceremonies where he 24 signed commissions in the past couple 25 of months with other associations. I 0018 1 would assume we would want to have the 2 same type of ceremony. 3 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 4 Yes. 5 BY MR. THOMAS: 6 We have to coordinate. This is 7 a big group. That's going to take 8 some coordination of us and the 9 governor's team to make sure that 10 happens. We want to try to make it as 11 special for these young men and their 12 families as possible. 13 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 14 Great. That would be awesome. 15 The next item is -- This is old 16 business, the drug and alcohol policy 17 update. We haven't had any issues 18 with anyone testing positive with drug 19 and alcohol in the last quarter. The 20 vendor that we are using for the 21 services is doing a great job. We had 22 some hiccups early on. I think they 23 worked through some of that stuff. 24 The six-month hair test, we are 25 rounding the second phase of that off 0019 1 right now with the last batch of 2 individuals. So, that's moving in a 3 greater direction. Nothing new to add 4 there. So, it's business as usual for 5 the drug and alcohol policy. 6 Next item and last under old 7 business -- What we typically do in 8 this case is we look at incidents. We 9 see those who have gone past a year 10 with no additional communication from 11 any outside organization, we look at 12 removing those from our incident 13 roster. Then we kind of go over the 14 new ones that have been added. 15 As you can see highlighted in 16 yellow, over the quarter, we had a 17 total of five new incidents to report, 18 again, none really to the point where 19 -- other than one, I think, that has 20 some additional probably follow-up. 21 That is the one on 4/27. That was a 22 barge broke loose and eventually sunk 23 and hit a ship. We have requested 24 FOIAs on that, waiting for the 25 response on those. 0020 1 The other ones new in the 2 system are groundings, hard landing 3 with a dock, rope caught in the wheel, 4 bumper bumped the dock, lines broke 5 loose because a shipped passed. 6 Nothing in the new category that I see 7 is going to have any real potential 8 follow-up from the board, other than 9 the one that was on 4/27. 10 As we look at the roster up at 11 the top, the incidents on 4/21, 4/29, 12 5/8, and 5/9, there hasn't been any 13 additional comments or requests for 14 actions from any outside counsel on 15 these. Again, there's not a whole lot 16 to them. 17 There's the one on 4/29 with 18 the collision with a tow. Again, I 19 haven't seen anything, but we can hold 20 that one over if the board wishes. 21 All the others up to 5/29, I think 22 it's safe to say we can remove those 23 from the roster. 24 If, in fact, the full board is 25 in agreement, we can entertain a 0021 1 motion to dismiss 4/21 through 5/9 2 from our roster. 3 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 4 I agree. I will start a motion 5 to dismiss these from the ledger. 6 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 7 I second the motion. 8 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 9 All in favor? 10 COLLECTIVELY: 11 Aye. 12 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 13 We will remove Items 4/21 14 through 5/9/24 from the roster. 15 Again, I'll keep the board apprised of 16 anything new that happens or comes 17 about with that. Also, with the new 18 items, you'll see I've given you 19 information on the incident reports in 20 them as well. 21 Again, many of them are 22 non-reportables to the Coast Guard. 23 Just for your reading pleasure, I 24 supplied it to you-all so you can see 25 what it looks like. 0022 1 That concludes old business. 2 Next item is public comments. 3 BY MR. EISELEN: 4 Brian Eiselen on behalf of the 5 association. Thank you for allowing 6 the public to talk. Two things: 7 First, with regard to the indemnity 8 agreements; second, with regard to an 9 incident on the river. 10 As most of the people in the 11 room know, I had the privilege of 12 serving as general counsel for the 13 board of examiners for quite some 14 time. Now that I'm on the 15 association, I can tell you on behalf 16 of the association we will not back 17 any type of indemnity agreement, 18 extend any type of indemnity 19 agreement, or assume any type of 20 liability whatsoever that's not going 21 to fall on us. 22 As you guys well know, the 23 association is the money aspect of the 24 compulsory pilot equation. We're not 25 in the business of giving that to 0023 1 anyone but pilots. From that 2 perspective we are not inclined to 3 participate or back that process. 4 From representing the board in 5 the past, it's really a non-starter. 6 It's beyond the scope of the board of 7 examiners. Plain reading of your 8 rules will outline the board's purpose 9 and legislative mandate is to oversee 10 accidents and incidents on the river 11 as it relates to pilot conduct to 12 protect the health, safety, and 13 welfare of the citizens of Louisiana. 14 We simply don't have authority 15 to extend indemnity agreements. While 16 other pilot groups may choose to do 17 so, each pilot group is governed by 18 their own special Louisiana revised 19 statutes and administrative rules. 20 Those two bodies of law, you do not 21 have the authority to extend that. 22 Relative to your research, 23 Mr. Ward, humbly, it shouldn't take 24 you very long to reach the same 25 conclusion, that you simply don't have 0024 1 the broad legal shoulders to establish 2 such a process. Without getting into 3 the pitfalls of such a scenario, the 4 first question that has to be asked 5 is: Who is going to provide 6 indemnification? Who has the money to 7 indemnify? What are you going to 8 indemnify? 9 As a logistical matter, Captain 10 Whittemore, as you stated, sometimes 11 people are already on the vessel. At 12 what point are you going to sit those 13 folks down and explain to them what 14 they are signing when you are supposed 15 to be piloting the vessel? Certainly, 16 it may be a little bit easier if you 17 board a vessel when it's docked. But 18 if you are underway, I think that 19 would be problematic. 20 Explain it to the NTSB after an 21 incident that you didn't give the 22 proper commands because you were 23 obtaining an indemnity agreement. I 24 think that would be troublesome. 25 Among other challenges, I will wrap it 0025 1 up relative to that issue. 2 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 3 We appreciate your comments on 4 that. I think, to follow up, I think 5 the board attorney counsel will look 6 through it and we will figure out a 7 path forward for sure. 8 BY MR. EISELEN: 9 As the association, we are not 10 inclined to put any type of monies in 11 play to indemnify anybody. We don't 12 have the authority to do that, quite 13 frankly. It's not really much of a 14 personal position. It's more of a 15 legal position. It's not what the 16 association exists for. 17 Turning to my next issue on 18 behalf of NOBRA, I want to thank the 19 board. As you mentioned a couple of 20 weeks ago, the apprentices had 21 training at the Shell facility in 22 Robert where a lot of different safety 23 issues were discussed. I was invited 24 to talk to the appreciates. I 25 appreciate having the opportunity to 0026 1 do that. 2 One of the things the board 3 asked me to talk about was to pilot 4 vessels and the safety associated 5 therewith. On May 7th, we had an 6 issue with a vessel that involves one 7 of the board members, specifically, 8 Captain Whittemore. We have some 9 concerns as we address safety on the 10 river. 11 In particular, Captain 12 Whittemore, on Wednesday, May 7th, you 13 were assigned to the STI MYTHIC, S-T-I 14 M-Y-T-H-I-C. That vessel had a draft 15 of 40 feet. The original order, my 16 understanding, is that for you to 17 board that vessel underway and anchor 18 it in Grand View. 19 There were several high-water 20 restrictions in place, not only from 21 the board of examiners, which I assume 22 you are aware of since you were 23 included on the emails from the board 24 and also provided to you as a 25 shareholder. I have a few questions 0027 1 regarding this incident. 2 It was nighttime, just 3 thereabouts, when you got the vessel. 4 You took it all the way down to the 5 Point, when the original orders were 6 to anchor it. 7 My questions really have to do 8 with safety. That is, from the 9 association's perspective, what was so 10 glaringly defective on that vessel 11 that you took the vessel all the way 12 down? What defects? Because if there 13 was something there that was of such 14 danger, perhaps we should have 15 reported it to everyone. 16 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 17 There's no defects. The safety 18 involved was assigned to anchorage to 19 a bridge -- close to a bridge. Given 20 the previous conversations we had 21 about the Baltimore bridge, I 22 determined that it wasn't safe to try 23 to attempt to turn the vessel around 24 and anchor close to a bridge in the 25 water intake. 0028 1 Then I spoke with the pilot 2 onboard. The vessel was handling 3 quite well. We determined it was the 4 safest -- safest was to take the 5 vessel to the Point and not attempt to 6 try to turn around by a bridge. 7 Given the NTSB report a few 8 months ago, Marsalis (PHONETICALLY 9 SPELLED) maybe, which blames NOBRA for 10 attempting to turn the vessel around 11 and anchor during high water -- 12 BY MR. EISELEN: 13 That incident came out a few 14 months ago? 15 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 16 I think it was -- 17 BY MR. EISELEN: 18 Couldn't you have gone below 19 the bridge and turned? Also, you went 20 through several other bridges. It's 21 problematic when it appears from the 22 recording on dispatch that that call 23 was made prior to or before any MPX or 24 PPX. I'm wondering how you were able 25 to identify safety before you got to 0029 1 the bridge of the vessel. 2 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 3 Talking with the pilots onboard 4 and determining which towboats it had, 5 I made the decision that it was a 6 safer bet to proceed to the Point, not 7 try to turn around below the bridge 8 and proceed back up again to anchor 9 the vessel above a bridge next to a 10 water intake loaded with 300,000 11 barrels of jet fuel. 12 BY MR. EISELEN: 13 As you well know, you thought 14 it was better not to compromise one 15 bridge, but to compromise all the 16 other ones all the way down? 17 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 18 No. I thought it was better 19 not to compromise any bridges and to 20 promote the safety of the vessel and 21 the state and the crew and the water 22 intakes to proceed to the Point as the 23 vessel was intended to. 24 BY MR. EISELEN: 25 Did you have the opportunity or 0030 1 did you contact VTC? There was a 2 river closure MSIB in place at the 3 time. 4 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 5 MSIB was not issued for that 6 draft. It was amended after I had 7 passed a few days later. 8 BY MR. EISELEN: 9 The one that was in place was 10 on May 1st with a draft no greater 11 than 39 feet, daylight operations 12 only. At the same time, the 13 association has a daylight rule 14 relative to high water. The examiners 15 had high-water restrictions in place. 16 The examiner, currently as we sit 17 here, has standards of care relative 18 to high water addressing this very 19 incident relative to daylight. 20 It's apparent that you didn't 21 contact VTC. What are you -- What 22 would you suggest the association tell 23 the other members that are on vessels 24 as you cruise by and they are on their 25 vessels and they want to know why they 0031 1 can't go too? 2 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 3 I do what's best for the safety 4 of the vessel and the state. What I 5 did was the safest thing, given the 6 fact the NTSB cited back on January 7 17, 2016 the primary cause -- 8 BY MR. EISELEN: 9 It wasn't recent. That's 10 almost eight years ago. 11 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 12 No, but it involves the same 13 scenario of attempting to turn the 14 vessel around southbound to abide by 15 the daylight restriction. 16 BY MR. EISELEN: 17 But when there's federal and 18 state regulations in place, those 19 regulations are law. They mean 20 something. Your ability to determine 21 what is and what is not safe is 22 bounded by the provisions put in place 23 by these governing entities, one of 24 which is the board within which you 25 sit. 0032 1 How do we explain to the other 2 association members that you violated 3 your own restriction? 4 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 5 I'll explain to the members of 6 the association that your job as a 7 pilot is to protect the state, the 8 environment, the ship. 9 BY MR. EISELEN: 10 Subject to applicable laws. 11 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 12 You are telling me I should 13 attempt a maneuver that is highly 14 risky in order to abide by laws that 15 may result in further damage to -- 16 BY MR. EISELEN: 17 When the state and federal 18 government tell you to do so, 19 absolutely. 20 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 21 Given my experience, I'd say 22 the decision I made, which I notified 23 the board of directors, notified other 24 dispatchers that this was going to be 25 the scenario, I -- 0033 1 BY MR. EISELEN: 2 Which board of director did you 3 speak with to tell them you were going 4 to unilaterally change the order? 5 Because I would like to follow up and 6 investigate. 7 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 8 Captain Brad Brown. 9 BY MR. EISELEN: 10 You told him that you were 11 going to unilaterally change the 12 order? 13 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 14 No. I was to proceed to the 15 Point as was the safest thing to do 16 with the vessel. 17 BY MR. EISELEN: 18 Did you contact VTC? The river 19 was closed between Mile Marker 109.5 20 and 110.5. 21 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 22 No. The dispatcher told me it 23 wasn't necessary. 24 BY MR. EISELEN: 25 I listened to the recording of 0034 1 the order. There's no such language 2 on the recording. 3 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 4 The dispatcher told me the 5 previous ship had proceeded to the 6 point. I should also be allowed to 7 proceed. 8 BY MR. EISELEN: 9 The purpose of these questions 10 are not to harass or bother you. The 11 concerns we have is that, as you are 12 aware on high water, there are two 13 significant incidents, one with 14 Captain Bud Watson and one with 15 Captain Dominick Blanton. Those 16 investigations are ongoing. 17 You mentioned safety being one 18 of the things you are concerned about. 19 We simply can't have a pilot who makes 20 a decision on their own to go against 21 valid restrictions that are put in 22 place, especially when that pilot sits 23 on the very board that's making those 24 restrictions. It's problematic for 25 the association. 0035 1 More importantly, as you well 2 know, the board of director on duty, 3 when the pilots on the route and 4 they're on a vessel, whether standing 5 watch on that vessel, make sure it 6 stays at anchor or bringing it to 7 anchor and there's another vessel 8 cruising on by making its own 9 determination they're going to go to 10 the point in defiance of the other 11 rules and regulations in place. 12 You can see the situation that 13 it puts the board of directors in. I 14 hope you can appreciate that. 15 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 16 I appreciate the concern you 17 have. Like I said, it's the overall 18 safety of the vessel, the state and 19 everything involved, the environment, 20 navigation safety that attempting to 21 turn that vessel around, holding and 22 trying to anchor it -- Hopefully, it 23 would hold anchor. Anchorage next to 24 the bridge, to me, was a high-risk 25 maneuver. 0036 1 BY MR. EISELEN: 2 Without question, safety is 3 paramount. You have to articulate 4 some plausible and reasonable 5 foundation for the safety measures 6 that you took or didn't take. You 7 can't simply say it was safe without 8 articulating more. I find it hard to 9 believe that you can hang your hat on 10 safety when you didn't even have an 11 MPX or a PPX. 12 Even yourself said the vessel 13 was in good working order. You should 14 have had no problem putting that 15 vessel to anchor. I would think that 16 traversing 60-plus miles, give or 17 take, from where you were opposed to 18 anchoring in place was considerably 19 safer. 20 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 21 I disagree. There are NTSB 22 reports that say otherwise. 23 BY MR. EISELEN: 24 Actually, that's not what the 25 NTSB report says. I'm pretty well 0037 1 versed in it because we use it in our 2 association. I was also on the board, 3 counsel at the time. So, I appreciate 4 you are trying to hide behind that, 5 but your facts are incorrect. Your 6 position is misplaced. 7 I hope you didn't do this 8 intentionally. If you did, in 9 instances where examiners have 10 purposely defied rules that were in 11 place have been forced to resign. I 12 hope that's not the case here. 13 If we find out, as we continue 14 our inquiry into this, I think that 15 would be the appropriate thing, 16 because you simply can't sit in 17 judgment of others when you decide 18 what is safe and not safe while 19 defying what the state and federal 20 government has put in place relative 21 to parameters which they deem is safe, 22 because as we both well know, the 23 federal government regulates your 24 license. 25 When they say the river is 0038 1 closed in a particular section and you 2 don't contact VTC and you proceed 3 anyway, that's problematic. Whether 4 you think it's safe or not is of no 5 moment. The Coast Guard and NTSB will 6 have a question, will disagree with 7 your position. 8 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 9 You inferring it was 10 intentional is ridiculous. First of 11 all, I -- 12 BY MR. EISELEN: 13 I didn't say it was. I simply 14 asked if it was. As we continue this 15 inquiry, if we determine it was, we 16 will proceed accordingly. I hope it's 17 not. I hope it was just a misstep. 18 We are not out for a pound of 19 flesh, but we do want to be able to 20 respond intelligently and accurately 21 to the 100-some-odd members in this 22 organization, especially since we are 23 getting ready to bring 32 more on. 24 It's important to know what 25 exactly existed on that bridge and in 0039 1 this fact pattern so we can educate 2 your young partners to make the right 3 decisions too. I find it very hard to 4 make a safety decision from somewhere 5 other than the bridge of a vessel 6 without having the benefit of an MPX 7 and a PPX. Do you normally make 8 safety decisions from home or on the 9 interstate on the way to the vessel? 10 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 11 No. Based on 25 years of 12 experience, former tanker captain, I 13 determined the safest thing was to 14 proceed with the vessel to the Point 15 as opposed to attempt to turn around 16 in high river stage and try to anchor 17 the vessel above a bridge next to 18 water intake in hopes of it holding. 19 BY MR. EISELEN: 20 Were there other vessels in the 21 area? 22 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 23 Yes. 24 BY MR. EISELEN: 25 I have one last question, and 0040 1 we can move on. Do you find it 2 problematic that you made this call 3 without being on the bridge of the 4 vessel, without having the opportunity 5 to see what other vessels were 6 anchored in the area, what information 7 the pilot had to share with you, what 8 other information the master had to 9 share with you? 10 How do you make an accurate 11 decision without even getting there 12 and seeing what's going on? 13 BY CAPTAIN WHITTEMORE: 14 Based on previous experience, 15 previous high rivers, 25 years total 16 experience, ten on tankers of that 17 size, three master tanker of that 18 size, and determining that, once 19 again, safety of the state, of the 20 ship, the environment is paramount. 21 BY MR. EISELEN: 22 I think I made my point. 23 Captain Jackson, if it's okay with 24 you, I would like to admit a couple of 25 exhibits into the record. I have the 0041 1 subsequent order form for this 2 particular vessel. I have the MSIB 3 from the United States Coast Guard, 4 which was in place at the time, the 5 May 1, 2025 MSIB. 6 I also have three high-water 7 restrictions that were put in place 8 surrounding this time, one on April 9 10th, one on April 13th, and one on 10 April 22nd. 11 I will submit to the board that 12 on these three instances, Captain 13 Whittemore received notice, not only 14 as an examiner of these high-water 15 restrictions, but also as a 16 shareholder. He received them both at 17 least twice. 18 In addition to that, I would 19 also like to make specific note of the 20 board's standard of care on the their 21 website relative to high water and 22 traversing during high water in 23 daylight when you encounter darkness 24 and, also, the association's Rule 62 25 relative to high-water conditions, 0042 1 which mimics identically and exactly. 2 There's no period or comma out of 3 place. It's the same rule, your high- 4 water standard of care as well. 5 With that being said, I have 6 nothing else. I appreciate the 7 opportunity to address you guys. 8 Thank you very much. 9 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 10 Thank you. 11 Are there any other comments? 12 Anything from counsel? 13 BY MR. WARD: 14 No. I think I'm not -- 15 Obviously, there was a lot of comment, 16 a lot of questions in the public 17 comment. But as a board, I know it's 18 -- it can be complicated in wearing 19 both hats. We probably need to -- not 20 probably. We need to make sure we are 21 following the rules that we are here 22 to enforce and oversee. Beyond that, 23 I don't think we have any more 24 comments. 25 BY CAPTAIN JACKSON: 0043 1 If there's not any additional 2 comments from the public, I will 3 entertain a motion to adjourn. 4 BY CAPTAIN RITTINER: 5 I second the motion. 6 BY CAPTAIN JACOSN: 7 All in favor? 8 COLLECTIVELY: 9 Aye. 10 [WHEREUPON THE MEETING WAS 11 CONCLUDED AT 10:45 A.M.] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0044 1 REPORTER'S PAGE 2 3 I, Leslie L. Nicosia, Certified Court 4 Reporter, in and for the State of Louisiana, the 5 officer, as defined in Rule 28 of the Federal 6 Rules of Civil Procedure and/or Article 1434 (B) 7 of the Louisiana Code of Civil Procedure, before 8 whom this sworn testimony was taken, do hereby 9 state on the record; 10 That due to the interaction and the 11 spontaneous discourse of this proceeding, dashes 12 (--) have been used to indicate pauses, changes 13 in thought, and/or talk-overs; that same is the 14 proper method for a court reporter's 15 transcription of proceeding, and that the dashes 16 (--) do not indicate that words or phrases have 17 been left out of this transcript; that any words 18 and/or names which could not be verified through 19 reference material have been denoted with the 20 phrase "phonetically spelled." 21 22 _________________________ Leslie L. Nicosia, C.C.R. 23 24 25 0045 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 This certification is valid only for a transcript with my original signature and original required seal on this page. 3 I, LESLIE L. NICOSIA, Certified Court Reporter in and for 4 the State of Louisiana, the "Officer" before whom this testimony was taken, do hereby certify: 5 That this proceeding and testimony was reported by me in 6 stenotype method, was prepared and transcribed by me or under my personal direction and supervision, and is a true and 7 correct transcript to the best of my ability and understanding; 8 That this transcript has been prepared in compliance with 9 transcript format guidelines required by statute or rules of the Board, and I am informed about the complete arrangement, 10 financial or otherwise, with the person or entity making arrangements for deposition services; 11 That I have acted in compliance with the prohibition on 12 contractual relationships as defined by Louisiana Code of Civil Procedure Article 1434 and in rules and advisory 13 opinions of the Board; 14 That I have no actual knowledge of any prohibited employment or contractual relationship, direct or indirect, 15 between a court reporting firm and any party litigant in this matter, nor is there any such relationship between myself and 16 a party litigant in this matter; 17 That I am not related to counsel or to the parties herein, nor am I otherwise interested in the outcome of this 18 matter. 19 ______________________________ 20 LESLIE L. NICOSIA, CCR Cert. No. 95004 21 22 23 24 25